The overwhelming issue in American soccer is geography, especially in relation to population. The distribution of people on the left and right coasts is so dense, and then so much more sparse in between. The sport is growing by leaps and bounds, but support pales in comparison to other sports. Nobody has any angst about drawing fans to Lincoln, Nebraska for a college football game (as just one example). The fan bases for soccer are growing, but even MLS doesn't compare remotely.
So, what is the answer? I believe the answer lies more in trying to get more of a regional flavor. Like pro/rel, fingers can't be snapped and simply make it happen. There needs to be a vision and strategy to strive towards. Forcing leagues to be nationwide is a gigantic mistake. The travel costs just eat up the money.
That's the issue when we compare to Japan, England, etc, etc. How easy is it to travel around Japan to get to games? All of the other big leagues in the world are contained in tight geographies. We are in a unique situation that needs a unique solution
This article contains many basic errors about the J.League. The league faces numerous issues and is heavily reliant on taxpayer money for its operations, which has led to criticism calling it the "Tax League"(税リーグ). The J.League is far from being a "paradise on Earth."
First, most of the 60 teams are considered chronic deficits, and many are even in excess debt. Most
clubs rely on financial support from their parent companies and local governments. Under J.League regulations, clubs are only required to avoid consecutive losses for three years. As long as they receive enough financial backing from parent companies or municipalities every three years, they can continue operating.
These issues have been highlighted in a report by ANA Research Institute (ANA is one of Japan’s leading airlines).
Furthermore, the J.League's stadium licensing requirements, particularly for a J1 license, are among the strictest in the world. Stadiums must have a minimum seating capacity of 15,000 (all individual seats; grass terraces are not allowed), be fully covered by a roof, and use natural grass. Many lower-division clubs are pushing for such costly stadiums to be built using taxpayer money, which has sparked considerable criticism.
Another major concern regarding investment in the J.League is the uncertainty caused by promotion and relegation. Japan’s professional basketball league, the B.League, has taken this into account and abolished the pro/rel system altogether.
Ok, I got an English translation of your link. All I can is WOW. You’re right, it’s not so rosy in Japan. They have similar issues that MLS and USL have. What they have done well is grow the community. What they’ve done poorly is treat it like the business it is. If we’re to succeed with an open system here in the US, we need to look at what’s going wrong here in the US and Japan. We then tweak it to increase our odds of success. I think the licensing model is the way to go, but PLS is holding us back.
I did notice that while the J.League is kept afloat by the corporation and local government, US clubs are kept afloat by owner contributions. Both have problems with turning a profit. Japan hinders the commercial viability. MLS doesn’t include the importance of community. It doesn’t help that the US is so large
As for MLS, from what I've found, around 8-10 teams are making a profit. Most notably Inter Miami from the Messi effect. But I don't think the league as a whole is cash flow positive. If it was, I'm sure there would be a big announcement like the attendance one.
This is the model that we need. APSL, former EPSL, has also a licensing model that the teams pay each year. They are leading the way in that regard even though they are semi-pro.
This is great, George, but one comment and a question:
Comment: the MLS is on the verge of being outvoted, if a future vote is taken about modifying the PLS; the collective votes of the NWSL, USL Super League, and USL Championship would outweigh that of the MLS. So it is not unreasonable to foresee changing the PLS so that the stronger USL-C clubs would qualify for the Div. 1
Question 1: where do the annual license fees --which are considerable!-- go to pay? Directly to the wallets of US Soccer? Do the English premier league teams also pay the annual license fee?
In contrast, do USL -C clubs currently have to pay any fees to USL, after the initial franchise fee is satisfied?
Annual license fees: This would go straight to USL. I can't think of a reason for USL to be paying USSF. The Premier League and EFL don't make direct payments to the FA. They are private companies. As far as I know, there are no payment. I believe current USL clubs pay annual participation fees.
I do like the idea, but the licensing is to high for it to be sustainable plus the fee for USL2 is not realistic at all. It shouldn't be no higher than $2,000.
I imagine in this world, USL2 is revamped into a "proper" "League 2" and the PDL may be brought back for those clubs just looking to be a summer collegiate league team.
Yes. USL 2 would be fully professional. In the semi-pro/amateur divisions, that $2000 sounds about right. As far as sustainability, if a club can't hit those numbers, they will mostly likely be operating at a loss. At the end of the day, owners have to be able to run a proper business. Creating a soccer culture for the community is crucial for success. They can't just be focused on player development. That's why attendance and game revenue were included. If a professional club can't get 1000 people in to the matches, they should drop to semi-pro until they can figure it out.
I wish that so often. That is why I enjoy regional leagues like APSL, which games I can watch, because they dont use college players and go fall/spring.
Why not agree on a governance structure that sets the rules and regulations for all leagues, USL and MLS plus the fourth tier pro am clubs. The infrastructure is in place with minor league teams in b cities that aren’t MLS finance or facility ready. Then once the leagues are consolidated let market dynamics determine where investors want to place their bets. There will be shake out… but winners and losers are good in the short run to arrive at a mature league system with defined pro rel rules.
So if I’m a deep pockets investor - maybe I come in at a higher level where access to capital is necessary. Or I come in at the bottom where a $10mm investment gets me into the game and I’m willing to compete for promotion which gives the investor an opportunity to reinvest with deeper pocketed investors, stay in the lower leagues, or sell to the next owner who wants to take a risk understanding the rules of the road.
If fans have been to a USL championship game - as I have. There are b markets that get 5000 plus fans on limited budgets. The fans are entertained and many have no clue about the messed up system that we have in place here. Those experiences aren’t going away and there are enough entrepreneurs willing to support the game at this level, support their communities through the game, delight fans and get out the game if it isn’t tenable in the long run.
Simply merge and define the rules and money will pour in since investors evaluate return based on the risk they are assuming. Our governing body has obscured those risks and can totally mitigate them with defined rules and an agreement with USL.
The overwhelming issue in American soccer is geography, especially in relation to population. The distribution of people on the left and right coasts is so dense, and then so much more sparse in between. The sport is growing by leaps and bounds, but support pales in comparison to other sports. Nobody has any angst about drawing fans to Lincoln, Nebraska for a college football game (as just one example). The fan bases for soccer are growing, but even MLS doesn't compare remotely.
So, what is the answer? I believe the answer lies more in trying to get more of a regional flavor. Like pro/rel, fingers can't be snapped and simply make it happen. There needs to be a vision and strategy to strive towards. Forcing leagues to be nationwide is a gigantic mistake. The travel costs just eat up the money.
That's the issue when we compare to Japan, England, etc, etc. How easy is it to travel around Japan to get to games? All of the other big leagues in the world are contained in tight geographies. We are in a unique situation that needs a unique solution
This article contains many basic errors about the J.League. The league faces numerous issues and is heavily reliant on taxpayer money for its operations, which has led to criticism calling it the "Tax League"(税リーグ). The J.League is far from being a "paradise on Earth."
First, most of the 60 teams are considered chronic deficits, and many are even in excess debt. Most
clubs rely on financial support from their parent companies and local governments. Under J.League regulations, clubs are only required to avoid consecutive losses for three years. As long as they receive enough financial backing from parent companies or municipalities every three years, they can continue operating.
These issues have been highlighted in a report by ANA Research Institute (ANA is one of Japan’s leading airlines).
https://www.anahd.co.jp/group/ari/human/report/pdf/report-2024-08-03.pdf
Furthermore, the J.League's stadium licensing requirements, particularly for a J1 license, are among the strictest in the world. Stadiums must have a minimum seating capacity of 15,000 (all individual seats; grass terraces are not allowed), be fully covered by a roof, and use natural grass. Many lower-division clubs are pushing for such costly stadiums to be built using taxpayer money, which has sparked considerable criticism.
Another major concern regarding investment in the J.League is the uncertainty caused by promotion and relegation. Japan’s professional basketball league, the B.League, has taken this into account and abolished the pro/rel system altogether.
Ok, I got an English translation of your link. All I can is WOW. You’re right, it’s not so rosy in Japan. They have similar issues that MLS and USL have. What they have done well is grow the community. What they’ve done poorly is treat it like the business it is. If we’re to succeed with an open system here in the US, we need to look at what’s going wrong here in the US and Japan. We then tweak it to increase our odds of success. I think the licensing model is the way to go, but PLS is holding us back.
I did notice that while the J.League is kept afloat by the corporation and local government, US clubs are kept afloat by owner contributions. Both have problems with turning a profit. Japan hinders the commercial viability. MLS doesn’t include the importance of community. It doesn’t help that the US is so large
George: can you share that English translation? It's a 23 page document -too big to use Google lens to translate easily! Thanks in advance
It would be great to know how profitable --or not!-- the MLS is! Anyone have any clues?
I used Google Translate. Click on "Documents".
As for MLS, from what I've found, around 8-10 teams are making a profit. Most notably Inter Miami from the Messi effect. But I don't think the league as a whole is cash flow positive. If it was, I'm sure there would be a big announcement like the attendance one.
This is the model that we need. APSL, former EPSL, has also a licensing model that the teams pay each year. They are leading the way in that regard even though they are semi-pro.
This is great, George, but one comment and a question:
Comment: the MLS is on the verge of being outvoted, if a future vote is taken about modifying the PLS; the collective votes of the NWSL, USL Super League, and USL Championship would outweigh that of the MLS. So it is not unreasonable to foresee changing the PLS so that the stronger USL-C clubs would qualify for the Div. 1
Question 1: where do the annual license fees --which are considerable!-- go to pay? Directly to the wallets of US Soccer? Do the English premier league teams also pay the annual license fee?
In contrast, do USL -C clubs currently have to pay any fees to USL, after the initial franchise fee is satisfied?
Annual license fees: This would go straight to USL. I can't think of a reason for USL to be paying USSF. The Premier League and EFL don't make direct payments to the FA. They are private companies. As far as I know, there are no payment. I believe current USL clubs pay annual participation fees.
I do like the idea, but the licensing is to high for it to be sustainable plus the fee for USL2 is not realistic at all. It shouldn't be no higher than $2,000.
I imagine in this world, USL2 is revamped into a "proper" "League 2" and the PDL may be brought back for those clubs just looking to be a summer collegiate league team.
Yes. USL 2 would be fully professional. In the semi-pro/amateur divisions, that $2000 sounds about right. As far as sustainability, if a club can't hit those numbers, they will mostly likely be operating at a loss. At the end of the day, owners have to be able to run a proper business. Creating a soccer culture for the community is crucial for success. They can't just be focused on player development. That's why attendance and game revenue were included. If a professional club can't get 1000 people in to the matches, they should drop to semi-pro until they can figure it out.
I wish that so often. That is why I enjoy regional leagues like APSL, which games I can watch, because they dont use college players and go fall/spring.
Why not agree on a governance structure that sets the rules and regulations for all leagues, USL and MLS plus the fourth tier pro am clubs. The infrastructure is in place with minor league teams in b cities that aren’t MLS finance or facility ready. Then once the leagues are consolidated let market dynamics determine where investors want to place their bets. There will be shake out… but winners and losers are good in the short run to arrive at a mature league system with defined pro rel rules.
So if I’m a deep pockets investor - maybe I come in at a higher level where access to capital is necessary. Or I come in at the bottom where a $10mm investment gets me into the game and I’m willing to compete for promotion which gives the investor an opportunity to reinvest with deeper pocketed investors, stay in the lower leagues, or sell to the next owner who wants to take a risk understanding the rules of the road.
If fans have been to a USL championship game - as I have. There are b markets that get 5000 plus fans on limited budgets. The fans are entertained and many have no clue about the messed up system that we have in place here. Those experiences aren’t going away and there are enough entrepreneurs willing to support the game at this level, support their communities through the game, delight fans and get out the game if it isn’t tenable in the long run.
Simply merge and define the rules and money will pour in since investors evaluate return based on the risk they are assuming. Our governing body has obscured those risks and can totally mitigate them with defined rules and an agreement with USL.
Just my 2 cents as a fan.